Reason’s Nick Gillespie chats with Columbia University linguist John McWhorter on why he thinks “America Has Never Been Less Racist.” They discuss the Jussie Smollett hoax, Donald Trump, and “anti-racism” as a new secular religion.

McWhorter, who is a regular columnist for Time and CNN, is the author most recently of Talking Back, Talking Black: Truths About America’s Lingua Franca.

This is a great conversation.